(ALESHA is showing her family photos) (...) I’ve got my cousin in Melbourne and then, Aiden, an Ellie, and my parole officer, my drug and alcohol counsellor, my psych, you know, just all the supports around. I've also got Michael's (ex-partner's) mom.
Michael's mum?
Yeah, Well, he's mum and dad. She has been an amazing, important part of my life for over 16 years. Because it's only been nearly a year since I spoke with Michael, but she has never been. No, she's in Victoria. And yet, she's never once judged me. She's always been there for me. And she's just been, like, a massive support for me. Like, she's always been there when I needed her. And I even came out (from prison) this time, like, I rang her, like, I was talking to her while I was in prison, too. And just talking to her, ring her once a week and just say, hey, how are you going, blah, blah. But I was talking to her this morning. And I told her that I've got a job, and she's so happy for me. And I just said, look, I've said to my cousin and my brother as well. Without their support, I wouldn't be in the position I am in now. Having that positive and unconditional support around me has just kept me going. You know, and it's, like, all my support and a massive part of why I'm in that, mentally and emotionally. I'm in the place that I am now. I'd be nowhere near where I am now. If it wasn't for them, you know? So, yes, I've said thank you to all of them. Like, I mean, thank you doesn't even seem enough. You know, my cousin said, ‘But that's what families do’. We stick together with their three, you know, the good and the bad, and the hard and everything. I said, "Yes, I understand that." But if they weren't there, or God knows where I'd be right now, like, I'd probably still be at the woman's shelter or something that you know, like, or I would be doing nowhere near as good.
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Where is Michael now?
He's still in Risdon Prison. He's been in there since... he got there 20 months ago, in 2020. In September 2020, for a lot of driving offences, evading driving with drugs in the system, without a license, and stuff. So, he got 20 months. But in September, he got parole. He only had to do eight months of parole, but four months into it, he went ‘cooking’ for the people who put me in prison. And then when they were, you know, they got what they wanted out of him. He went next; thing, you know, he has been arrested, and he got charged for importing 'a controlled substance'. He is from the mainland, from a different country, and is involved in manufacturing and trafficking. And he's been back in for 17 months. So, for the four months he'd been out on parole, he had to go back. He had to do that in prison (...). He had his parole revoked, and he had to do the whole eight months again. So, in September last year, his parole was up. So, but he's been in 17 months now. Yeah. And, um, he still hasn't been sentenced for these new charges.
On remand. So, he's waiting for an additional sentence.
Yeah. So, he's finished his parole. And so he's still waiting. He went to court yesterday because I looked up the court list. He's on the Supreme Court. And it said: a plea like to enter a play. So I don't know what's going on. But I want to know when he will be getting out because he's going to come looking for me. I know he is.
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And do you want it or not?
I'd rather not. But I know he is like he's got a mate who lives just over the road here. Say, like, he's gonna tell them.
Are you and Michael still together?
No, actually, no, I left him before I left prison. I left him the day before my brother’s first anniversary of his death.
So, you called him (in prison) to say you're not together...
I said 'I'm leaving you'. Because I, well, he got really nasty... But it's what I've told him: I'm leaving you. We had a Zoom visit in prison (...) It's just... I needed to do this for myself.
Because if I stayed with him, I just end up back in prison (...)
I was always his helper when he went cooking. And he says, "Say to people, no helper, no cook." So yeah, (later on) I was found guilty on circumstantial evidence; I got charged with aggravated robbery and aggravated burglary. Yeah.
You got four years...
Four years, yeah, two on parole (...)
My trial was five weeks after I found out about my younger brother being murdered. And only got a solicitor two months before my trial. I had one conversation with her on the phone. And that was about a bail application. I didn't speak to her again until just before my trial... when I was up in Launceston on remand... It was a private solicitor but legal aid funding. I told her about my younger brother just being murdered. And I said, I only found out five weeks ago, so it was still fresh for me. And I said, look, I can't go on the stand, but they still put me on it. I made a big mess of everything like, and they were firing questions at me...,
The DPP was firing questions at me. And then, as soon as she finished one question, she started with the next one. So you don't even get a chance to finish the first question before they ask you the next question. So, you're actually saying, like, answering the second or third question, you know what I mean? So, you're not actually answering the first question. That's how they get ya... And I was just an absolute mess. absolute mess. And I was in there by myself. I had no support. No, nothing. You know, like, I had no idea what was going on.
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But in a sense, as I'm sitting and listening to you and thinking that at least one good thing came up out of this horrible experience. And it is that you are finally on your own (without Michael).
Absolutely, there are quite a few positive things that come out of it. And I didn't start seeing that until I really started talking with Margaret.
Margaret? The person, you have met inside (in the prison).
Yeah. And then, because she was telling me a little bit about her.
And she said, look, the positives that have come out of it as it's brought her family closer together." She said, even though it's a really fucked up situation and it's wrong on every level. She said the positive was that it brought her family closer together. And when she said that, um, okay. All right. Like, yeah, I can see that. And then that's when I started seeing, like, I'm a bit of a believer that things happen for a reason (...)
I feel like you don't make friends in jail. You don't have friends in jail. You know what I mean. You're just there to do your time. You get along with people, you know? You don't make friends. But (...) five of them. Including Margaret, whom I will never forget for the rest of my life, even if I never see them again. I'll never ever forget them...
You opened yourself to them.
I did. She was the only one you really wanted to know. I didn't, and I can't even remember. But it just started one day, like I was really losing my sh*t at this one girl. And Margaret actually stopped me. And she's like, "You get in your room." And then right, and then she came in. And then she was just talking to me, and I was an absolute mess. And then that's because one of the girls triggered me in there. And that brought back my nightmares from my first ex, my kids' father. It was just, she was just...
How did she trigger you?
I can't... I don't even know why or how she triggers me. But she did. Because that's when I started having nightmares, and I couldn't have my door closed. Because my ex one day made me... we had a big argument, and we had this Tucker box freezer, the big box freezer, or he made me empty one, made me take my clothes off, made me get in it, and then he sat on the lid for about an hour. I thought I was gonna die. And so I'd these nightmares about that. So I couldn't have my door closed. And then I told Margaret that that's why I couldn't have my door closed. And that's what was going on with me. And she actually cried and gave me a hug. And like, I made her break all her rules, you know; no hugging in here... And that was the turning point for us. And that's when I'm like if I had only to talk to someone or just go and talk to Margaret. Because she never once told me what I wanted to hear. She told me what I needed to hear, whether I liked it or not. You know, she'd say to me, like if I was having a bad day. Look, it's okay, have two sick days. You know that's all you get in so you better be right after that. And I'll be like, I'll probably only need one day. And I'm just like, okay, Margaret, you're right. She just knew me.... that she saw past everything. You know, and I love her for it. But I mean, if I needed to kick up the bum or a smack at the back of the head sort of thing. She'd say it to me. But yeah, like I spoke to her about what was going on with me. And what happened and even to the point where Michael got out on parole, and he went cooking for the same people that put me in jail. You know.
So, back then, in jail, Margaret was the person you talked to... but was there anyone else... like a psychologist?
G from therapeutics. I really spoke to her; like, I was like five and a half months into being in jail. That was before I even went to my trial when I started seeing G.
How was it?
She was absolutely amazing. Like, she's seen me in there. You know, and she's seen me from my rock bottom to right now. I even spoke to her last night. I'm still in contact with her. Yeah, yeah. I catch up with her every now and then and just go for a coffee or something. You know, just to say hello.
Did you explain all about your family to her?
Yes, yes. Yes. She knows all about that.
How often were you able to see her? (In Risdon)
Well. Once a week. I was seeing her once a week.
Going into her room?
Yeah, she was visiting around like she's coming in. She comes to your room. No, no, no, just in the office. Like in the admin building. There was like a little room that would go in and talk just... closing the door. There was like a clear bit of a window. So, like, the officers could still see in. So. But yeah, yeah, she was absolutely amazing. It was the first time I saw her alone. We have done tapping. And that was when I was at my absolute worst.
What was it?
Tapping... your senses. Like, yeah, you tap here... Your nerves are in that. And it can calm you down pretty quickly. Like you do some things to it...
So, it was her idea to do that?
Yes. She said, Oh, do you want to do it? And I was like: Or whatever. I actually said, Yeah, whatever. All right. And so we've done it because I was in trouble and had half a day locked by myself. So, at that time, I was locked in the cell. But, um, when I went back to my cell after seeing her 10 minutes later, I went to sleep. It was the only time I went to sleep for an hour, but it was the best hour of sleep. I'd been heading there, and I woke up and I'm just like, What the hell thought? What's just happened? And the next time I saw her, I said, "What have you done?" I said, What the hell was that? I said I need to do that again. And I told her what happened. And from then on, yeah, I was just so open to alternative therapies to help with my anxiety, and my anger, and everything else in there.
Did she also give you any kind of advice in relation to your children?
Not really, because, like, there wasn't really anything that she could do. But I mean, I did talk about them a lot, you know, and I've got a lot. Yeah, I've got a lot off my chest to her. And see, because she was, she never judged me either. And she was; I couldn't even find the right words. And she always listened to what I was saying, like, while I was talking, you know, and she made it a really safe place, like our sessions. So that's what helped me personally.
Did you try writing letters to your kids?
She suggested all that, but I didn't have an address for them. Yeah. And, like, I had no way of contacting them, you know, which made it hard. But, you know, there were days I'd have, like, on their birthdays... like that, I'd say, I would have crazy, shit days... you know, my son or daughter's birthday or something like that? And she'd be like, Okay, well, what can we do? You know, like, what's going to help you get through the day? It was those sorts of things that she would be like with me.
So, it was helpful?
Sometimes, I just needed to stay in my room and shut myself off from the world. You know, not that I slept, but just knowing that I wasn't going to be annoyed, you know, and then I was always able to do that, you know, just to do whatever it was that I needed to do. If I needed to go and do 200 laps of the court, like the volleyball court, well, then I could go and do that, you know. But, yeah, I'm not really in jail. Like, I'm thinking about it now. And for just over two years, I was there... it was kind of a real big blur. I was struggling so badly through it all. But um, and just, yeah, having two uncles that passed away, and my brother or in a matter of eight weeks of each other, like, you know, there was like in a period of eight weeks, like the three of them...
Who told you about it?
Both my mom and my older brother had no idea where I was because I couldn't contact my mom because my phone went flat. And I couldn't get her number out because I don't charge your phones in prison. So, I couldn't get my number. But they tracked me down a week after my brother died. And it was my older brother who actually Googled my name. And it came up that I was in Risdon prison, for my charges. And then, then, he rang the prison. And then they took me to reception and called my mom. I didn't even recognize my mom's voice.
How come?
I didn't even know.
So, you were in some kind of a space... with a very limited connection to reality.
Yeah, because I'm like, Ah. I said, "Hello." How are you? She said, "Oh, no, I'm not good at all." And she's like, Oh, how are you? And I said, Yeah, I'm good. And then when she said, I'm not good at all, I said, Who's this? And she said, "Mom," and I just burst into tears. I'm, oh, my God, because I knew my mom was sick. She's been sick with lung cancer for a long time, for years. And, like nine months into being in prison, I didn't know whether my mom was alive or dead. You know, like, not knowing that was also sending me crazy.
You didn't know her postal address?
No, I didn't know my mom's address either.
Because they (the family) moved?
Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know mom's address.
This was not something the prison could organize...?
They were on the mainland. And here it’s like, it’s Tasmania...
Still the same country...
Yeah, I know that. It anyway. So, like, that was another positive thing coming out of it -
I got to reconnect with my mom and my brother.
What did she say?
She said, look, I've got some bad news to tell ya. And she said, it's about W, And I just knew, like. Yeah, my younger brother.... Yeah, it was.
I’m very sorry. So, it was some horrible accident...
No, someone shot him in the chest and left him dead. Yeah.
Because...
I don't know. We still don't know.
But was he also part of some kind of criminal activity?
No, He was he was a drug user, my younger brother, but he used it. He used the drug, not the drug used him, you know, but he loved life and being on the drugs. It just enhanced his love for life... sort of thing. Like he wasn't a bad person, he didn't go stealing. He didn't rip anybody off. He didn't go breaking into houses or stealing cars or anything like that. It wasn't like that. He just loved life. And I still don't know what really happened. He was 40.
Was there any investigation...
They charged four people who chose because they found the bloke with the shotgun who actually shot him, his girlfriend and two other people, one young kid. He was actually at the house but didn't actually see it happen. But he hid the evidence. But he played, and he didn't tell the police the truth from the start. But he ended up pleading guilty to it. There was another girl who was charged with accessory, and she pleaded guilty to that. So, I think those two have spent their time in jail and were released (...) The police can't tell us a lot because they're still investigating a lot. Because he's going, the bloke who did it, his trial starts in April next year. I've just found out, and his girlfriend because she took him away from the scene and everything. And she was there. She's been charged with accessory to murder (...) And I said, look, that's fine if they want to downgrade it because there's not much time difference in prison. I said, That's fine. I said, but I'm not giving him an inch. I'm not giving him an inch because he's actually pleaded not guilty to the murder because he's been charged with a lot of gun charges and other stuff as well. That yeah, he's pleaded not guilty to murder. So no, sir. I'm not giving him an inch. He can rot in jail for all I care. You know. So. Yeah. the trial doesn't start until April next year.
And your mom, was she coping with it all?
She didn't cope at all. And I think, and even my older brother said the other night, he believes that's why she passed away like ten months, two and a half months later, because I said not long after mom passed away. I said, oh, no, she died of a broken heart. Because W was her baby. You know, like W could do no wrong, you know? Yeah,
I mean, he was in and out of jail from an early age. Because my granddad, like my mom's dad, he passed away. He had bone marrow cancer, and when he passed away, he was like a father to us, and even more so to my younger brother. And then he just didn't deal with it. And that's when he started on drugs and stuff like that, but he was always in and out of jail from 13. You know, that was just his life; he was institutionalised. And yeah, like, where's mom? She went and visited him, put money in his account, bought him whatever he needed, you know, things like that. Like when I was in jail back in 2014. I remember saying I needed socks and undies, and I was still waiting for it... You know what I mean? But if I were W, she would have done it right away. But she was like that since he was a baby, you know?
So, was it an option for you to go and attend (the funeral)?
No, because it was on the mainland, but I was video-linked to it. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah, I needed to...
So how did it go? Were you actually in your cell?
No, I'll go to the control room in the visitor room. I was there with Norm Reed, the chaplain... He organised it for me. He got in contact with my mom and spoke to my brother and dad to get permission; they had to give permission for Michael to be linked in as well. Yeah. So, they couldn't see us or hear us. But we could see them, and we could hear them.
So, Norm was sitting next to you?
Yes, he was. I was a complete mess. A complete mess. But yeah. I'm glad I wasn't alone. Yeah, I think Norm kept touching me on the shoulder like here, you know, saying, Ah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's an okay sort of thing. But it's like, I knew he was there. But he wasn't there. Because I was so focused, it was a little iPad that I had. And I was just so focused on it. Like, I was touching the screen and everything, and it kept changing and all that oops, oops. You know, because, like, there were photos of my brother. And I was just, like, touching his face, like on the screen, and I was an absolute mess. Yeah.
Norm, the prison pastor...
Yeah.
Did he say anything in relation to God...
No, I'm not religious like that. So yeah. No, no, but he was just there for me. So, and that was, that meant a lot to me. Yeah. I don't even really remember walking out of there. I just remember walking up to one of the girls, and she's like: how are you? And then I just remember that as soon as she grabbed me, I just collapsed. Yeah, my legs went from underneath me. I was just that upset. Yeah.
Did you have anyone else to talk to?
Well, as soon as I got the phone call from the psychologist (...) as soon as I got the phone call from Sydney reception, I was just an absolute mess, and the supervisor and everything were in there. And they said, "Quick ring G. and get her here as quick as possible." And like, before I knew it, she was walking in the door. And she just gave me a big hug. The supervisor got a phone call for me from Michael. So, I could talk to him pretty much straight away. Yeah, he was in the minimum over there. But like all the officers, they were just so good. You know, like one officer.... He just showed me that much respect. That day, he, him, and R, the other inmate, pretty much helped me walk to my cell. And the day of the funeral, He sat on the bed next to me, and everything, you know, like he didn't know what to do or anything like that. And I was just like, wow, like, and what he did. He said, "Like, let's go to admin and put you in that room." You know, go on, straight on to the doctor, and I'll go to prove to have a valium just to calm me down. And stuff like that. Like, yeah. And yeah, like, the officers were so good to me. When that happened...
Can you say that it was especially difficult because you were so far away?
Yeah, yeah. I couldn't be there for my mom. That's what was really hard. I couldn't.
I couldn't be there right beside my mom, you know, to help her through it. So that had a massive effect on me. Yeah. I was ringing her pretty much every day. Just to check on her saying, Mom, how are you? And she's like, "No, not good." Not good. She wasn't sleeping, but she was good in a way because she'd been in contact with me again.
Are you the only daughter?
Yes. Two brothers in the middle.
Did she manage to visit you?
No, because she was sick. And COVID, you know? And because she was so sick, she didn't go outside much. But in the end, she couldn't drive. She had a walking stick and everything, like, just to get around... But it was a mission for her to walk. You know, distance, COVID, yeah, she didn't. I'll keep telling her. Don't go outside. Don't you go and get COVID. Because of her health, it would have had a major impact on her. She wouldn't have survived it.
Do you think if not for COVID she would visit you?
Yeah, she, I think she would have...
How long have you not seen her? Is it because you moved to Tasmania?
Yes. I hadn't seen her for about seven years. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, it's been a long time. Yeah, it was so hard. It was so hard. Like, a lot of times, When I rang her, even though we've got 10 minutes on the phone, sometimes I'll cut the phone call short because I need to be strong for Mom. And that's what I said to her. I said, "Look, you don't need to be strong for me. I said I'm going to be strong for you. I said, "I'm not going to cry on the phone." I'm not going to be a Sookie Lala. I said, but if you need to cry, and whatever you need to say, you know, just say it. A couple of times, she yelled at me, she got cranky at me for no reason. And I just said, look, Mom, I'll ring you again later. I love you. And that was it. And then I just hung up the phone. And then sometimes I just had to cut the conversation short, because I wasn't... I knew that I was just gonna lose, lose it, you know, and just burst into tears and stuff like that. So, to stay strong for her on the phone was so hard for me. But I had to do it for her. You know.
Were you thinking at that stage or at any time that this whole story, that imprisonment actually works? I mean, there's so many people affected.
Yeah.
This is what I call 'collateral damage'.
Yeah.
You know... there are some people talking about certain types of females that shouldn't actually be in prison.
Yeah. Yeah.
Did you have this moment of thinking about the system, like, to what extent is actually really doing something beneficial? And to what extent it doesn’t.
Well, the system... my trial took only three days. And it took two and a half hours to come back with a guilty plea. So, when they come back and say guilty, and then the judge says, "I'll be sentencing straightaway. But they didn't even... like my solicitor didn't ask for a pre-sentence report or anything like that. So, at that stage, and for the next couple of weeks, I was just like, I mean, this system is so wrong. I was found guilty on circumstantial evidence. Nowhere else in Australia does that, only Tasmania.
What about your family circumstances?
Nothing, Nothing, absolutely nothing.
Do you think you'll be kind of ready to actually sit with someone and say, By the way, I'm the mother, by the way, I have a history of being a victim. Yes. I was victimized prior to my offending...
Yeah, I had nothing like that. There was nothing, nothing.
I am asking if you would say it if somebody would offer to listen.
If somebody would sit and listen... Yes, I would have. Yes, almost certainly I would have. I would have told him my whole life. You know, and everything that's happened to me and what I've been going through....
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It is complex, also your prior relationship with your husband, the father of your three children.
Yes.
Those previous experiences also shaped your profile and made you more vulnerable to being part of another relationship (that was ) not very well balanced... (in relation to power).
Yes. It was very unbalanced. Yes. So it was all about Michael, like, the whole relationship was all about him. You know, like, and it was a domestic violent relationship as well.
And nobody asked you about this situation. Your relationship?
I was asked nothing. My solicitor didn't even ask me anything.
Did you have those moments while being interviewed to say, wait a minute, I was actually a toll in somebody else’s hands...
You see, I was such a mess when they arrested me. And was interviewing me. But when they were interviewing me, like, they treated me like odd like I was a piece of shit. They spoke to me disgustingly where they go, they said like, but they were yelling at me. They were angry at me. (...) You know what I mean? I said I didn't do this. I didn't do this, and I was in such a state that even when they took me in that night to go into court, like to get put to go for bail. When I was refused bail, then, they walked me out, and my legs went from underneath me. I just collapsed again because...
Were they all males interviewing?
One female, one male. But it was we're all behaving the same way. Yes, yes. Yes. It was absolutely disgusting. They were asking me a question, and it was like they were doing the same thing is what the prosecution was doing in my trial, when they are asking you a question. And then that fire, another one is pretty much like straight away, so you don't even have time to answer the first one before they ask you the second one, then the third one. And so you might say yes to the first one. But you're actually saying yes to, like, the second or third one. You know what I mean? And it makes you just twist everything around. They knew that I had nothing to do with it.
You think so. I also understand that this is not your first contact with the criminal justice system.
No.
So this is also what actually probably shaped, it shouldn't, but it did shape their attitude.
I've never been any kind of violent. No, no, this is a thing like it was all manufactured. I didn't go to jail for the first time until a month before my 30th birthday. Like I wasn't ever in trouble before then. Never had anything to do with the police. But never in trouble. Done. Nothing wrong.
So, what happened then (the first problem with CJS)?
Manufacturing - cooking drugs...
Yourself?
No, with Michael. Yes. So, it was like...
This was in Newcastle...
No, this was in Queensland the first time and then the second time in Sydney. Yes, yes. And then I went back a third time. Because they said that I breached my bail. So, I went back in for four and a half months. And then I've got myself out on Supreme Court bail.
All with Michael.
Yes.
So, you go IN and then you go OUT and do the same?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Because?
Because that was his life. And because it was a domestic violent relationship. It was just a lot easier to go along with what he wanted. Because I mean, if I spoke my mind, or if I said, look, I don't think this is a good idea. Well, then I'd get bashed, and we do it anyway.
Can you describe Michael a little bit?
I met him about a month after the father of my kids, and I broke up in the drug scene again in the drug scene. And then he pretty much led me to believe that he was the complete opposite to my ex. But in reality, he wasn't. He was worse.
So where did you meet him?
In Coffs Harbor. Just had people come over...
To your place?
Yeah. Yeah.
At that time, you had your children and husband.
Yeah. Yeah. My ex wasn't there. But my kids were there. Like they're asleep. And like, because they were used to us having people over and like having people having drinks and stuff like that. But they slept through all the noise the kids. So you know, it wasn't a problem. And then one of our associates, come, I wanted to come over, and she said, look, I've got a mate with me cannot bring him, and I said, Oh, fuck it. Why not? And then that's how I met Michael.
Handsome, a nice one?
Oh yeah, I thought he was, yeah. He was.
Your age or older?
He's just under three years older than me. Oh, just over three years or something like that? About three.
Okay. So, at that stage, what do you actually do? You're the mother of three. Do you work?
No.
So, you are actually at home...
Yep, but I was using drugs very heavily. Because after what my ex has done to me, l, like, we split up; I've been with him for nine years. And I'm like, you know... when our youngest was seven weeks old, you know.... I had the evidence that he was cheating on me. And I was an absolute mess. But I had to be strong for the kids.
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Was your ex also using drugs?
Yeah.
And this is methamphetamine.
Yeah.
Smoking or injecting?
Injecting. And I just started using, like, two or three times a week. You know, just stay strong. Just to get about my day. Take the kids to school.
Injecting at home... and the kids are at home. Did they know about it?
No, no, I'd never done it in front of them. No, never. They've never even seen me have a bong. You know, like it was always while they like, you know, like, we'd go out to the tool shed at the garage. That's where a bong was. So we'd go in there and have a few cones and then come back out, you know, but we'd go in one at a time. So there was one of us always with the kids, you know, they never seen they never saw what a bong looks like, you know...
Who introduced you to those drugs?
Yeah, well, before I got with my ex, like the father of my kids, I was already injecting because I started taking drugs when I was 14. Yeah, and I was snorting it. And then it got to the stage where every time I snorted it, both my nostrils just poured out with blood. And then I started eating it... just swallowing it. And then that got I was doing that so much that it got to the stage where as soon as it did hit my, my belly, it comes straight back up. So, they didn't have pipes in that back then. So, I was like, the only other way to do it was Yeah, so and I didn't want to do it in front of anyone. I didn't want anyone to do it. So I pushed myself until I knew how to do it.
And your mum, did she know about it?
No.
At 14 years old, are you living with your parents?
No. Yeah, I was out of home. Yeah, you didn't want to be with your parents. Mom and dad divorced when I was like five. Didn't really have much to do with my dad. Me and my mom just weren't getting along. I was actually raped at a party. My drink got drugged... when I was 13.
Who was it?
I don't know. No, no, no, I ended up falling pregnant. And mum didn't believe me that I was raped. And then I thought, well, she's not going to believe that I was pregnant. So, I left home. By the time I was 14. And then when I was eight months pregnant, I gave birth to a stillborn. And that's when I really started heavy on drugs, alcohol, smoking pot before then I was smoking cigarettes before then. But when that happened, and I was all alone or pregnant, and I moved to Sydney, I just ran away to Sydney.
Where did you go?
I went to Kings Cross, and I just lived and stayed on the streets.
With this belly growing?
Yeah, until a lady came along and said, what are you doing? And I said nothing. She goes, where do you live? And I said nowhere. And she said, no, you can't be me. But she was a drug dealer. She sold heroin and speed. And when I gave birth to a stillborn.
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Were you using (drugs) while pregnant?
No, no, this was after, like, when I just gave birth to a stillborn baby. I went back, and she gave me a bit of speed. She said this will make you feel a bit better. And I was like, Yeah, okay. And then but she said, but I'll never give you heroin. And though I actually went six weeks without any sleep, and I just said to her, I said, look, I said I just need to go to sleep. I said, Give me some of that. Because I knew that. And she gave me like a tiny bit. And I slept for like three days. And when I can like woke up, I said, oh, can I have some more that? That was fucking awesome. And she said No fucking way. So I just went back onto the speed that I was using hardcore. Yeah. I was snorting it. Yeah. Because like back then it was like a powder...
...Incredibly destructive.
And it was really, yeah, but it was really strong back then. It's completely different back then from what it is now. It was in the 90s. Yeah, Sydney. Yep. Kings Cross. That was when you'd walk down the main street of Kings Cross. And like, there'll be that many people on the night there, many homeless people. And it was just a place where you get scared to go. But I mean, I was like walking up and down the streets at 14, like three and four o'clock in the morning. Not scared.
Because this was your space. Yeah, your people.
Yeah.
So, where did you stay at that stage?
But that's when I was staying with her. She lived a couple of streets behind the main street and Kings Cross. Yeah. Yeah. She was happy to give me the speed, but not the heroin.
What was that actually she wanted from you from you?
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She actually got me a job at Bourbon and Beefsteaks. And I was just collecting glasses, like 14 years old. And I was working in a nightclub, but I was just a glass collector. Yeah, yeah. Just collecting all the glasses.
So, she didn't want you to actually help her with selling drugs...
No, she just gave me a safe place. Yeah, because she never dealt from home. She always went out and went and done it. And that but you know, just made sure I had a roof over my head... he was she was she was beautiful to me. You know, that. I mean, it is what it is.
I am really sorry about everything you're saying in relation to your pregnancy. So, you went to the hospital? Yeah, yeah. And then again, nobody paid attention. Nobody approached you and asked, who are you?
No, no. Not back then. Well, I mean, I was in on the streets of Kings Cross So they just, you know, says like, oh, you know, your baby's dead. Pretty much your baby's not alive. They told me. So, they had to induce me. I had to actually go through labour. And then I just took the baby away. I don't even know whether it was a boy or a girl.
Did you ask?
Yes. They said you're better off not knowing. They wouldn't even let me see the baby. Yeah, so that's just the way things were back then. You know...
This is all so traumatizing...
So I mean, like most of my life...
So, you didn’t tell this story to the people at the police station, but in Risdon to the to the psychologist? Did they know about all those horrible experiences?
Yeah. G. knows. Yeah.
Because it is so deeply traumatizing. And this is where you use drugs to simply suppress the pain... Have you ever told your mother about all? Anything of that?
No.
Because of shame?
I don't know, honestly, I don't even know... it never comes up. You know what I mean? Like...
So, when you were living on the streets, you just vanished from her life, and she accepted that?
No, no, she didn't accept it would have been a missing person’s report. Like she was bringing everybody she could think of to find me. But Mum didn't know anybody in Sydney. And I didn't tell anyone. I was going to Sydney, and I just left. So she couldn't find me...
And your dad?
I didn't have much to do with my dad after mom and dad separated and got divorced. So, he was out of my life. But that was only when I tracked him down and wanted to see him. Yeah, he was an alcoholic.
What about your mom, was she working?
No, he wasn't working. Because she was like, staying home. My dad used to drive the trains, like the passenger train site from Sydney to Newcastle. Yeah. Yeah, he used to drive them. So, he was actually the breadwinner. And yeah, he was providing. Yeah, Mom was staying at home. Yeah.
Was she a happy person?
She was depressed a lot. She was lonely. But she still did what she could for us. I mean, she had to be a mom and a dad. You know? It was It wasn't until after having my kids that I realized how hard it would have been for her. She struggled like back then when she was getting the pension. They didn't get what it's not like the pension that you get now when you have kids. So, I occasionally just had enough and, like she said, literally counted every single cent to last the fortnight on food and everything like that. Even bus fares thought to go to my granny's and back on a Saturday. You know, we didn't get extra things. We got a lot of hand-me-downs. We didn't have many clothes. So, things like that. But I mean, we still had a roof over our heads. We had clean clothes. We had a warm house...
And each other...
And each other... so that was the main thing. Yeah.
Okay, so at some stage, you're actually in Sydney, and this is where you met your future...
No, went to school with my first ex. I just went to school with him. He was in the same year at school all the way through primary school.
But when you left home at 13 or 14, were you still at school?
Yes, I was. And then I went back to mom's when I was just before I was 16. And then my grandfather passed away a month before I was 16. And then I left again because I couldn't handle it.
So where is the school, in between? Do you have a chance to go back to school?
Yeah, when I went back to mom's I went back to school. Yeah. Sorry, this is... it's very difficult to put things together... Yeah, kind of.
I know it’s difficult to put all of it on the timeline.
Yes. My head's actually really heavy at the moment.
Look, we can stop now.